Topic: The death of 'dance'

ok. not talking about underground stuff, but can we say 'dance' (i.e. more commercial style electronic music) is officially dead in Holland? With the dance parade in Rotterdam being cancelled (rightfully imo), every other festival being terrorized by hooligans. Also the bigger festivals (lowlands etc.) essentially stopped programming house etc. years ago.

Not that i care, but sometimes i think it's going downhill with the entire electronic music scene. For years the youth has been more into hiphop and the whole urban culture (dubstep perhaps being the exception being a bridge between scenes or styles).

opinions?

Re: The death of 'dance'

about damn time i says

Re: The death of 'dance'

arse fell out of the commercial market years ago. good riddance.

cuties don't exert

Re: The death of 'dance'

I'm talking about looking at the issue in a broader perspective and seeing the more commercial orientated electronic music styles as a stepping stone for the underground ones. If kids stop listening / enjoying this kind of music than what will happen in 10 years time? And i'm not talking from a commercial point of view but more from the creative one.

To put it in perspective i see a parallel with the death of disco. The optimist that i am says that ultimately gave us Italo etc. But due to the commercialization of the entertainment industry i doubt evolution / progression will happen as it went then. Perhaps this also disturbs the natural cycle of cool / uncool.

5 (edited by Kenzaburo 2010-02-05 15:54:05)

Re: The death of 'dance'

I don't feel it's getting less popular. For example there's this whole 'dutch' house thing coming from the Netherlands that's getting really big worldwide at the moment with artists like Laidback Luke and Afrojack .. They are more on the commerical side of the spectrum.. Maybe hip-hop and such are more popular but there will always be clubbers etc

Re: The death of 'dance'

actinet6 wrote:

I'm talking about looking at the issue in a broader perspective and seeing the more commercial orientated electronic music styles as a stepping stone for the underground ones. If kids stop listening / enjoying this kind of music than what will happen in 10 years time? And i'm not talking from a commercial point of view but more from the creative one.

To put it in perspective i see a parallel with the death of disco. The optimist that i am says that ultimately gave us Italo etc. But due to the commercialization of the entertainment industry i doubt evolution / progression will happen as it went then. Perhaps this also disturbs the natural cycle of cool / uncool.

like the capitalist economy it belongs to, the music industry goes in cycles of boom and bust. right now, with eyes elsewhere, the actual product, electronic music, is better than it was when anyone and everyone was making hard house/trance/whatever for "the wrong reasons". if you're a freak, times of bust in the musical industry are the best. i agree it's like the "death of disco" - which is when disco got REALLY interesting, i.e. the various mutations that lead to house.

another bonus is things are more eclectic now. "dance" pretended to be homogenous - like the "urban" designation - but really it was an ultra-exclusive elite playing the same records on the same labels. there is genuinely more diversity at the low end of the cycle as people can't afford to distance themselves from any market. electronic music is in much better shape now than it was in the 90s - though, sadly, electronic musicians are probably - as a whole - a lot worse off in terms of cash. in the 90s there was so much shit clogging the filters - so much press agency, radio playlisted bullshit drowning out the good stuff. now there's no money for that stuff, it's disappeared.

though apparently - i.e. bias said it - hacks like dj tiesto and whatever still find places where people think it's fine to wear cycling shorts and raybans and listen to that boring shit they listen to. (funnily enough, i met someone the other day who still worships gatecrasher. unbelievable! apparently they're still going. LOL.)

cuties don't exert

7 (edited by Kenzaburo 2010-02-05 16:32:19)

Re: The death of 'dance'

There's a lot of shit clogging the filters now too (actually more than ever, everybody and their mom are making techno lol) but it's just moved to blogs + spam on myspace / e-mail / facebook whatever .. You still have to dig to find the good stuff I guess. And yeah, times are very hard for electronic musicians to make a living .. I think it's actually worse like this and it might even backlash the creativity

Re: The death of 'dance'

Dance parade being cancelled? Not due lack of animo, but strictly cause of a more strict policy towards public events. It could have been the bloemencorso as well..

Festivals terrorized by hooligans? Incidents..

Lowlands stopped programming house? Basement Jaxx, Audion, Dixon, Koze, Dekmantel, I-F, Joost van Bellen, Optimo, Tiga all in last years line-up. And then I'm not even including all techno and IDM acts..

I must say I don't recognize any of the points OP is presenting as a tendency of the donwfall of popular electronic dance music. Quit the contrary, it's still as popular as it was 5 years ago. Maybe even more, dance is more then ever common ground on a global scale. The commercialized clubculture is still expanding, pumping the shallow beats till morning glory with DJ's as leading cashdriven popstars. The freaks have already left the building, only to practise their skills on DJ-hero. Meanwhile Bobby from the block is having a blast, and even aunt Annie can't wait for the upcoming Sensation.

Dance has had many faces over the years, and has proven to be a substantial part of mainstream culture. Still zillions of parties every weekend, more dance then popfestivals, electrohouse and minimal are big as shit. When you here minimal tunes in the H&M and department stores, you know it's still high on the list of the marketing goeroes. If you use the charts or MTV to pull conclusions on mainstream music in general, I can imagine the 'death of dance' idea. But these references are far from reality, nobody buys singles anymore, MTV lost the M five years ago..

All though I do agree that dance is dead, but that's out of a musical perspective. Innovation is long gone, all has been done. Nothing wrong with brushing up forgotten genres, but now we've come to a point where the whole circle has been used in many ways. Especially 2009 was a very bad year for techno and electro, and I don't see that getting better in 2010. Disco died, house came. But disco was only one genre, house split itself up in dozens. That's another reason it won't be going anywhere. Enough to choose from for everybody, a whole new generation has already begun their invation. Even hardcore is still going strong, only the italo lover sobs itself everynight to sleep..

It just is..

9 (edited by Kenzaburo 2010-02-05 18:31:10)

Re: The death of 'dance'

+1, great post but I think there's still room for innovation and interesting things can be done.. I even liked some of the stuff in 2009 wink

10

Re: The death of 'dance'

I hope dancing never dies becuase it's the only thing that ties us to our black ancestry.  Then agian dancing is kinda gay

Re: The death of 'dance'

I rather play the blues wink

TB or not TB

12 (edited by zip 2010-02-05 18:49:19)

Re: The death of 'dance'

actinet6 wrote:

I'm talking about looking at the issue in a broader perspective and seeing the more commercial orientated electronic music styles as a stepping stone for the underground ones

does it work like that?

i wonder how many 'kids' get into 'underground' stuff after listening to tiesto etc,
it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of listeners to those so called underground styles come from totally different backgrounds, like indie, punk, funk or hip hop

13

Re: The death of 'dance'

zip wrote:

i wonder how many 'kids' get into 'underground' stuff after listening to tiesto etc,
it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of listeners to those so called underground styles come from totally different backgrounds, like indie, punk, funk or hip hop

this

Re: The death of 'dance'

Clockwork wrote:

Dance parade being cancelled? Not due lack of animo, but strictly cause of a more strict policy towards public events. It could have been the bloemencorso as well..

Festivals terrorized by hooligans? Incidents..

Lowlands stopped programming house? Basement Jaxx, Audion, Dixon, Koze, Dekmantel, I-F, Joost van Bellen, Optimo, Tiga all in last years line-up. And then I'm not even including all techno and IDM acts..

I must say I don't recognize any of the points OP is presenting as a tendency of the donwfall of popular electronic dance music. Quit the contrary, it's still as popular as it was 5 years ago. Maybe even more, dance is more then ever common ground on a global scale. The commercialized clubculture is still expanding, pumping the shallow beats till morning glory with DJ's as leading cashdriven popstars. The freaks have already left the building, only to practise their skills on DJ-hero. Meanwhile Bobby from the block is having a blast, and even aunt Annie can't wait for the upcoming Sensation.

Dance has had many faces over the years, and has proven to be a substantial part of mainstream culture. Still zillions of parties every weekend, more dance then popfestivals, electrohouse and minimal are big as shit. When you here minimal tunes in the H&M and department stores, you know it's still high on the list of the marketing goeroes. If you use the charts or MTV to pull conclusions on mainstream music in general, I can imagine the 'death of dance' idea. But these references are far from reality, nobody buys singles anymore, MTV lost the M five years ago..

All though I do agree that dance is dead, but that's out of a musical perspective. Innovation is long gone, all has been done. Nothing wrong with brushing up forgotten genres, but now we've come to a point where the whole circle has been used in many ways. Especially 2009 was a very bad year for techno and electro, and I don't see that getting better in 2010. Disco died, house came. But disco was only one genre, house split itself up in dozens. That's another reason it won't be going anywhere. Enough to choose from for everybody, a whole new generation has already begun their invation. Even hardcore is still going strong, only the italo lover sobs itself everynight to sleep..

lol. nice post. You convinced me partially. So dance is not dead, but could we agree that it's in a zombie like state? Brainless and moving slowely (fuck those fast running zombies btw).

15

Re: The death of 'dance'

from my point of view 'the death of dance' doesn't really mean anything musically

dance doesn't exist, 'dance' is a marketing label for good selling music with beats or big events build around music with beats

so if 'dance' dies, it only means it's no longer the big cash cow it was, so you won't hear it on commercial radio and you'll find less dance events

which also means that if 'dance' dies, it doesn't tell you anything about the state of dance music itself

16

Re: The death of 'dance'

zip is bang on the money

cuties don't exert

Re: The death of 'dance'

yeah, with places like Sensation still selling out in days and now being exported all over the world, its definitely not dead. what has died, are a lot of labels and production companies that made their money from vinyl or cd's. our labels currently outsell trance labels, if they still press vinyl at all. downloads can't keep these companies floating, so they go belly-up, but the healthy labels and ones that have a good fanbase because they release quality stuff will survive...

18 (edited by Scarface 2010-02-07 23:56:56)

Re: The death of 'dance'

zip wrote:

from my point of view 'the death of dance' doesn't really mean anything musically

dance doesn't exist, 'dance' is a marketing label for good selling music with beats or big events build around music with beats

so if 'dance' dies, it only means it's no longer the big cash cow it was, so you won't hear it on commercial radio and you'll find less dance events

which also means that if 'dance' dies, it doesn't tell you anything about the state of dance music itself

+1

Dance? It's a easy understandable term made for marketing dancemusic (house, techno, drum&bass, electro, etc) to a (very) wide audience. It isn't a musical genre as such.

I think though the need for people to go out and "dance" (no matter to what musical genre) will never die. Time will tell to which kind of music this will be... If the old thing dies then the "new thing" (which is mostly not entirely new) comes along...

"Are you loving?"

Re: The death of 'dance'

Ok maybe don't know the world, but I think we can all agree that the term dance does include too much different genres and commercial levels on to summarize a whole industry on.

All that I can say, that the more underground part of 'dance', which I'd simply put as the more IFM sound, has seen a dying scene over here in the last 2 years. And yes there are always problems about commercialization and things getting too hyped up, but on the other hand there also has to be some scene-people with the same taste to give a fundament for artists and dj's to get gigs.

I can't think of when I saw the last time a detroit act coming over here. Must be 1 year? In 2007 you still had detroit guests coming over to play at the bootleg on a at least 2-monthly basis. Not great but at least something. From a more local side, even the best dj's we have in Rotterdam who've been in that scene for longer than anyone can remember get to play like once a year. So I can defenitely see it going down to some extend, yes!

Re: The death of 'dance'

On the upside, we have recently had Juan Atkins and more in Amsterdam + Loud-e in a big venue. Maybe part of the "underground" is becoming more popular?

Re: The death of 'dance'

surely you're looking at it completely wrong? underground should not sit still, so its not going to be the same

Re: The death of 'dance'

From the title of the thread, I thought we would be discussing whether "dancing" is dead. If that was the case, I would say YES. The last couple nights I've been out people are just standing around with drinks in their hand bobbing their heads in one place.

What happened to clubbing for the music, DJ, and dancing? When did it all turn into getting drunk in public?

Re: The death of 'dance'

ballmouse wrote:

When did it all turn into getting drunk in public?

since good drugs are too hard to find nowadays..  tongue

Re: The death of 'dance'

real men dont dance! they flex on the bar and drink straight whiskey