Re: Behringer Buys Midas

i heard only horrorstories about the last generation of Midas mixers (durability & defects) so in that way, they will complentate each other well.

and everybody has his/hers own way of doing it...ITB, OTB, 128 channels mixer, 4 channel mixers, I dont care. It is the music in the end that counts...but that is obviously, obviously tongue

I am horrified by mutlitracking or overdubbing...I support Vangelis way of doing things, all in 1 stereo take.
But I can understand other ppl doing 32 passes thru an outboard compressor.

patchbay is nice, but when you got 100 HW fx units it aint fun anymore, you get lost in the matrix big_smile

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Indeed. Many roads lead to Rome.

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Brian Chinetti wrote:

Indeed. Many roads lead to Rome.

What about if you're not trying to make Italo?

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Then you could get anywhere big_smile

30 (edited by Zachary Bosch 2009-12-10 15:24:14)

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

asteroid wrote:

Having a good patchbay eliminates the need for a big powermixer.

Beyond a certain size, yes.... but below that patchbays lack;

Gain control (effects sound differently at different drive levels.
Low-cut (essential for feedback on effects and quite useful in many mixes)
EQ (duh)
one to many routing
many to one routing
physical controls that may be easily grabbed and tweaked.

I'm not saying everyone needs all of those all of the time, or that patchbays don't have their place, but I find it a bit strange how some people in this topic try to downplay the needs and way of working of others. People like Rude&me have been producing for years, published on the subject, given lectures and workshops.... Do you really think that we never thought of this? That we -without thinking- would have invested the money, space and maintenance that a desk takes "just because"? That we were blissfully unaware of how useless our desks are until people like Mono and Asteroid pointed this obvious fact out to us?

It's a bit baffling to me how easily these statements are made.

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Zachary Bosch wrote:
mono-poly wrote:

you don't need a big desk ruud.
A good patchbay system is what you need.

That's a bit of a odd statement to me. I find desks, like routing systems, can be instruments in their own right. There are plenty of styles of playing that depend on the desk being used as a instrument. Think of dub-style mixing, the usage of the mixer in turntablism or the continual eq tweaking in a lot of old gabber.

There are probably a lot of people that feel you don't need hardware modulars either....

I didn't say you don't need a desk at all.
I just did say it doesn't need to be something like 24 or 32 channels when it is like a modular with patchbays.
I got 2 small desks myself and they are important to me.

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

And Kass don't confuse opinions with statements!

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

The Midas I've used sounded fantastic.

never had one myself though.  as for mixers at home, i probably use my old 4track more than anything due to space issues. i'd actually considered one of those tiny cheap behringers for compact live stuff, but my mate has found me something older, better looking and with a load of crusty faders for pennies

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

no-fi wrote:

.....but whats the fun in recording everything one input at a time?

not sure why you say one input at a time... a motu 828 gives you up to 10 channels of concurrent input if I'm not mistaken... I record 3 inputs simultaneously through my tc electronic konnekt 24 and am obviously limited by budget, as I would love to have a big motu or focusrite interface with a load of inputs... computing power would also be a limitation for me but with the right machine....

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

it also depends on how you work, i could never work this way because i do a lot on my desk when i'm mixing a track. also, a good mixer is not just adding ''artefacts'' but actually enhances the sound of your synths, drum machines, etc. the pure sound of a synth is not per se the holy grail, just like people are findign out now that the pure sound of a recording is not the holy grail, and the added restrictions of analogue equipment in the mix, whether its sound generators, recorders, or the ultimate medium its pressed on, make for something that's perceibved by the listener as more pleasant than the pure (i.e. digital, uncoloured, bla bla) recording.



@kas: its also my experience that many people who poeh-poeh big desks, analogue synths, tape recorders, etc etc never had any experience with them. i've had many people here in the studio (and in the CEM earlier) that had this

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Totaly agree with ruud about a good desk and good preamps and eqs are a must have.
You should do all sound sculpting including fx before you record with your pc imho.
But a small desk can work great with patchbays ( i need those btw but i am gonna wire at my new house to patchbays)

Look Ruud (klein maar fijn)

http://home.deds.nl/~modular/dump/stud-nov.JPG

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Ruud - who/what do you write gear reviews for?  Are they in english?

38 (edited by Brian Chinetti 2009-12-10 20:33:06)

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

rude66 wrote:

@kas: its also my experience that many people who poeh-poeh big desks, analogue synths, tape recorders, etc etc never had any experience with them. i've had many people here in the studio (and in the CEM earlier) that had this

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

unicity wrote:

Ruud - who/what do you write gear reviews for?  Are they in english?

no, in dutch.. www.interface.nl
dutch version of magazines like sound on sound, keyboards, etc.

however i am thinking about putting all my reviews in english in a blog or something.. but its a lot of work..



mono: okay, with a mixer like that, you have a point..

but i'd still like a 24 channel version of it more.. tongue

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

yeah but man 24 channels are most time not used all the time and eat to much space.
i have a second mixer coming btw will keep you guys updated.
Wish i had a second eab console but that would make me broke.

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Ruud> bigger versions http://www.sonicworld.de/consoles.html? … ~bodyFrame

I always have solutions hehehe.

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

42 (edited by teknob 2009-12-10 20:53:29)

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

can the single channel strip idea ever work?

It must be because I don't use a macbook, but whenever I try to record one thing at a time in ableton or logic, the timing is always fucked up because the delay before the soundcard starts recording varies. (soundcard is a Focusrite Saffire LE) So I have to correct the start of each seperate track. I want to be able to record all tracks to seperate DAW channels in a single take to get around this and generally speed things up. This brings me to a question to the community here (and I already can guess some of the answers), because I see the following choices:

A new Mackie Onyx 1640i
Or
My current (too big) Soundtracs SOLO with MOTU 24io and PCIe in my old PC (Intel Dual Core)
Or
My current Soundtracs Solo with 2x Echo Audiofire 12 through firewire in a rather new laptop (also to be acquired)

also, anything else I should consider for a solution (i do want to use a mixer though)? I wanna keep the cost in the above range though (like about 1000

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

I'm not arguing for one or the other, just expressing a different viewpoint on this mixer/no mixer stuff:

For me being mixerless with a few nice preamps seems to be working rather well.  I may not have the same experience or accolades of some of you guys, but being around the same age I can remember a time when not having a mixer just wasn't an option.  Period.

However, running synths and drum machines into the DI of a Chandler Germanium with the "Thick" switch enabled is a thing of pure beauty that is unobtainable on any mixer I could possibly afford.  I also have an API A2D here on loan, and that thing makes everything sound like magic.  Hit it hard, even more magic.  Too easy.

With that experience under my belt I know I'd rather have access to one or two really nice pres than a mixer full of mediocre ones.   I'll never go back (unless I one day accquire the $$$ and space to afford a Toft ATB16).

So yeah, no mixer but a patchbay and a handful of nice pres.  Great sound, minimal space requirements.   The crap I make has never sounded better.  ; )

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

@ unicity: Do you record every track seperate thru the pre-amp and put everything in one file once recorded?

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

I would never buy a new big desk like the toft or midas nowadays.
Maybe a nice smaller older one or an API 500 rack with a nice summing mixer.
But then you got no aux the most times.
I still think Sony is the best bang for the buck on the used market.

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

S.T.E.N.T.E.C.:

If I think that every tracks needs some hi-end preamp love, then yes.  Admittedly that almost never happens though.

Right now I have 7 inputs available to me.  Chandler Germanium (1), API A2D (2), and the pres on my Fireface (4).  I never run synths directly into the convertor because I think that sounds like crap.  Typically I run the "important" sounds through the nice pres, and the lesser sounds through the RME's pres.  Some sounds just aren't worth the effort of repatching.  My rack looks like a modular synth, with a big mess of cables, but it's all strictly audio.

47 (edited by Kenzaburo 2009-12-10 21:30:01)

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

rude66 wrote:

@kas: its also my experience that many people who poeh-poeh big desks, analogue synths, tape recorders, etc etc never had any experience with them. i've had many people here in the studio (and in the CEM earlier) that had this

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Analogue synths + limiters + finding the right levels.
Not that hard imho.

i don't need the gear, the gear needs me 
http://www.mono-poly.nl/

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Kenzaburo wrote:

Plug-ins are getting better by day. Right now some plug-ins are coming out that model analog hardware on component level with things such as SPICE (circuit emulation). With circuit simulation, the analog schematic (consisting of the individual resistors, capacitors, tubes, and so on) completely defines the signal processing. They say that still even the fastest current CPUs are not enough to do 100% emulation of more complex circuits but I'm sure soon enough we will be there. There was this plug-in from Wavearts called Tube Saturator just out a while ago that employs this technique, a simple tube saturator circuit emulated 100%. Tried it out a while ago and it took about 60% of my cpu power but sounded very very good indeed. Not to mention the new FATSO emulations on UAD etc..

So that's the latest fad they try to sell to unsuspecting noob. SPICE is nothing special, it's a total waste of cpu cycles trying to model the whole circuit with it. At the end of the day it works just like modern dsp does, integrating discretized differential equations, but with lots of unnecessary overhead.

Monkey see, monkey do.

50 (edited by Kenzaburo 2009-12-11 08:10:32)

Re: Behringer Buys Midas

Well I don't consider myself as a noob with hardware or software gear, but those things and the new Fxpansion D-cam synths that employ the same method (and about 32x oversampling) sound better than what I've heard before. Maybe it's nothing special as you say (I'm not a dsp guru) Of course the algorithms are better too now than 10 years ago. But at the end of the day it doesn't make the music any better that's true wink

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