1 Topic by ZeHa (edited by ZeHa 2010-04-03 09:54:57)

  • ZeHa
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Topic: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Hello,

I recently bought an MPC 2000 and I like it very much, though I'm still a bit unsure about how I should organize my live sets. Of course, everyone might have a different approach, but I'm just interested to hear them from you wink

Like, e.g., do you put multiple verse and chorus sequences after each other, so that you simply have to advance one sequence when the time has come, or do you have them in only once and then switch back and forth? How do you handle drum fill-ins, do you have them simply on an additional track which is muted at the beginning, or do you use a different sequence for that? Or do you play them live on the pads? Does somebody rather prefer song mode, and are there any tricks to e.g. "hold" the current sequence in song mode? Are there any tricks in general, which might not be directly known from just reading the manual?

How do you handle program changes for your synthesizers? I know I can program them or select a program directly for a track, but then the program always resets when the sequence loops, so if you change the sound during play (filter sweeps etc), the changes will be gone again.

I saw a cool video of Mr. Pauli on youtube, also using an MPC, and as you all know, it's also music with real song structures, not just like minimal techno where you simply mute and unmute a few blips and blops wink so if you're reading this, Mr. Pauli, I'd be very interested in your approach as well wink

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

whatever basic methods you go with it should be no problem having a sequence with muted drum fill tracks and then opening them up when you want them to come out.

you can always put verse and chorus parts in the one sequence, and use pad mute mode to go back and forth and in between them... :-)

having different sequences for different song parts is OK, though when you jump to a new sequence, you end up with the default track mutes that it was saved with... so depending on how much you want to modify parts between jumping sequences, this could be a problem?

if you're going to have a whole bunch of sequences just laid out one after the other to click through, why not just go the whole hog and do the song to sequence function? less to worry about then.

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

I agree that program changes are a big pain for external synths you want to sequence. we used to run an mpc2000xl with a waldorf xtk doing bass and chord sequence parts. was annoying to tweak something and have it reset on you every time the sequence went around

one answer is you go the whole song to sequence function, and have a single no looping sequence for each song... (you should stll have ability to mute/unmute extra bits and stuff thogh!) there's the problem gone.

if you want to keep stuff broken up into parts, you can also have "intro" sequences for each track that just set prog changes and sample banks, maybe while playing a simple beat, then jump into the proper sequences for the tracks straight after, with no more prog changes in the rest of the song parts...

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  • ZeHa
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Well, I don't think I would want to have verse and chorus parts in one sequence, of course it's possible for some songs, but not for all of them. Having one big sequence wouldn't be too good either, because even though I mostly have song structures, I don't want them to be too fixed, I want to be able to play a verse or chorus part longer.

Switching back and forth between sequences actually doesn't reset the mute parts, the MPC remembers everything you did before and brings you back to the last state. But this can be a bit problematic, because if you unmute a drum fill during verse, then switch to the chorus, and then switch back to the verse, the drum fill will be still on, so you have to mute it when you come back to that sequence. That's why I thought of maybe placing another verse after the chorus sequence, so that I only advance from pattern to pattern, without having to go back again.

The idea with the "intro" patterns wouldn't be bad. Actually, I found out that it's also possible to set the loop for a sequence manually, so I could e.g. create an 8-bar sequence, but only loop the last four bars and do the initializing stuff in the beginning.

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

I used to have my songs broken up in a few sequences. Works for some songs, not for others.
Using an 'intro' pattern is indeed the best way to prevent resetting of synths.
But although the MPC does remember track mutes, if you go wild in the first sequence with (un)muting tracks, you can still
run into a problem when you switch to the second sequence for the first time, as that will have tracks muted the way you
saved them, not the way you are at that point.

These days most of the time i just have one sequence for a whole song, but have most parts seperate on the mixer
and do all the mixing, muting, fx sends and stuff there. This way i not only have a much better overview and a more
complete interface ( mixer with eq and faders ), but it's also nicer to look at for the audience as you are
physically working the mixer, and they can sort of see what is happening.

I find this is even more true for drum fill ins. Do them live ! That's what the pads are there for !
People just like to see something happening during electronic live acts. There are enough guys looking at a laptop
screen holding a mouse. AND DON'T GET ME WRONG : they can be doing 20 times more live arranging and other stuff...
but as audience you just can't see what and when.
They like to see you rocking those MPC pads, tweaking knobs on synths and hands rocking faders on a mixer.

But above all i find this way much more fun smile

You could also do the one sequence thing but have the sequence looped to, for instance, the second chorus
so that way you can at least do an extended version of a song when you're raising the roof smile
You could decide to introduce a new melody or whatever, only in the extended part.

For the live fill ins i always make a seperate program with 64 sounds that i have active throug out the set in every song,
ready to be misused ! ... mostly i've hit all 64 sounds even before the first song has really started smile

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  • rude66
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

i have to agree with herr pauli here. live drumming.. no matter how crappy my fills are, you cqan see instant reaction when i do this on my mpc1000.
and mix on the mixer, thats what it's for! i use 14 mono channels between synths, the mpc and the laptop, and the only thing i do on the mpc itself is change patterns, drumming or triggering vox samples on the pads.

my take on using it live in simple words: if you use an mpc, adapt to how it works. that means, don't use certain tracks if you can't break them up in usable chunks. there's some trax i can't play live because they'd be too complicated between the vox of shaunna, the different parts in the mpc.. so i do others that are easy to adapt. same for synths: my waldorf pulse has no problems with program changes so i use them, the rack software i use on my laptop does (it skips beat 1) so i do it by hand...

  • ZeHa
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Yeah, live drumming is a good idea actually wink I didn't do it often on my Electribe, because the pads are so small and you only have 9 of them, but on the MPC, things should work out better...

Mixing on the mixer is what I've done before, but since my mixer doesn't have mute and solo buttons, I'm very pleased that I can do that on the MPC now instead of using the faders wink also, it's a difference if you mute a MIDI track or audio, notes can still ring that way.

What I also like is that I can use several tracks to control the same synth... that's something I couldn't do with my old equipment, and it's great because I can split melodies or have the notes and the filter sweep on different tracks and then mute one or another, that's really cool.

@ mr. pauli, how do you do the "separate" program? I can only have one program active at a time. But I know you have the 2000XL, maybe that feature is not available in my 2000?

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

hmmm...could be the 2k can only have one program active...but i'm having a hard time believing that.
Maybe that's one of the big improvents of the 2kxl. Never really heard of very big improvements over the 2k.
Always thought they were kind of the same machines.
But anyway, yeah the 2kxl can have four active programs. So i have one for fx and percussion and stuff.

In case you really only can have one program active, you could decide to reserve the same pads in every program
for live percussion/fx sounds. If you always assign them to the same pads, you'll always know where to find them
in the heat of the night.

MR PAULI
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  • Registered: 2008-07-13
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

yep - only one at a time on the 2000 classic.  one of the many reasons why i switched to the xl a loong time ago. 

all this mpc talk is starting to make me feel old - it's one of the first things i bought new that is now rapidly acquiring vintage status.  can also buy either one for more than $1000 less than i bought it for.  ahh, the 90's.

10 Reply by ZeHa (edited by ZeHa 2010-04-08 18:16:36)

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

I just found out another cool "trick":

I know there's a "next sequence" button on the XL, and even though I'm not quite sure what it does, I think the following might be a little bit similar. Until today, I thought it's only possible to switch to another sequence by turning the data wheel. But it's also possible to enter the number directly with the number keys, and this is great in stressful live situations, because the switch will only occur after you hit the "enter" button. That way, you can't accidently turn the wheel one sequence too far and then quickly hurry to correct the mistake. Instead, you just enter the number early, and then you just have to press "enter" as soon as the time has come wink

Of course, for many sequence switches this might not be necessary, but it can be very helpful for some, especially if you have more things to do at once.

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  • rude66
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

my mpc1000 doesn't have number keys, i think it may be possible to switch with the pads..i've done the 'wrong sequence with data wheel' many times live, but its really not a problem.. it shows there's a human at work.  big_smile

  • Registered: 2008-07-08
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

really ?
The 2000 doesn't have a next seq screen where you can switch sequences using the pads ?
That's a very useful function.

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  • ZeHa
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

At least I haven't seen such a screen wink

But what does the "next sequence" button on the XL exactly do? Does it just open that screen? Or does it work like my "enter" button workaround that I described?

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14 Reply by Sander (edited by Sander 2010-04-09 13:36:27)

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

A good tip for the next sequence is to give a PAD a name like GO TO SEQ 4
During your liveset, you read that from the mute screen en so you cannot forget or
go to wrong sequence.

Zeha, if you press it and select a sequence, the mpc start playing that sequence when the current bar is complete,
so it's not a direct jump. Although there is also an option to direct jump to other sequence.

  • Registered: 2008-07-08
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

What Sander says, plus in that screen you can clear ( undo ) the next sequence if you selected the wrong one.
And of course most important you can hit "pad" and then you can use the pads to select the next sequence..
For me this is by far the best way.
Because you have a good overview, and can correct a wrong selection instantly by just
hitting the right one, instead of having to dial in the sequence number or use the wheel.
...many times i have selected the wrong sequence using the wheel big_smile
But as Ruud says;  mistakes give a live set just that little extra.
Human brains like imperfection.

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

i've had the 2000classic since forever, but its been a while since i had it setup, this thread has inspired me to do so actually.
is there any way to assign the fader to a pad without triggering that pad in the process? (i.e while playing a live set)   is the fader assignment saved with program?

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

About the program changes: you can also program them in a track that doens't hold any music and mute the track once the change has been transmitted (after the first run of the sequence)

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  • ZeHa
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Ahh okay, that's another interesting idea!

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  • Registered: 2008-07-09
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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Sander wrote:

Zeha, if you press it and select a sequence, the mpc start playing that sequence when the current bar is complete,
so it's not a direct jump. Although there is also an option to direct jump to other sequence.

Is there possibly a third option (w/ jjos 2xl) that can switch to the next section at the end of a measure before the loop ends?

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Re: MPC users: how do you organize your live sets?

Honey Peters wrote:
Sander wrote:

Zeha, if you press it and select a sequence, the mpc start playing that sequence when the current bar is complete,
so it's not a direct jump. Although there is also an option to direct jump to other sequence.

Is there possibly a third option (w/ jjos 2xl) that can switch to the next section at the end of a measure before the loop ends?

You can jump any time if I remember right. If a sample is playing, it will stop I guess or maybe that is also programmable. I cannot remember who it works exactly.