Topic: recording synths

I record synths straight into a computer interface.

I'd like to be able to raise the levels of the synths before going into that interface (8 inputs).

It's mainly for 3 monosynths and 1 stereo poly.

I want to avoid a big console because it's too big.

Apparently the proper way to record a synth is to use a DI and then a mic preamp, I'm afraid that solution will amplify noise too much.
Are there other solutions?

I've been looking at gear, old and new, and I can't find a product that fits my needs, so maybe I'm not looking for the right thing.

Re: recording synths

Apparently the proper way to record a synth is to use a DI and then a mic preamp,

I don't think that is very proper way?

Most of the time people just feed their synths into a mixer small or big, EQ them there and then it goes to the computer or recorder or whatever.

3 (edited by 3apkob 2009-02-11 22:40:46)

Re: recording synths

doesn't your interface have any preamps? these are usually sufficient.

if not, you could consider getting a small recording interface, something like a PreSonus Firebox. I used an M Audio Mobile Pre a while ago, but I wouldn't recommend it. I heard good things about PreSonus preamps.

and I think that a good DI box won't add much noise to the signal, as long as you stay away from that Behringer crap wink

i also recorded through a mixer (mackie cr1604), but it sort of degraded the sound quality, so i gave up on it.

4 (edited by Brian Chinetti 2009-02-11 22:47:59)

Re: recording synths

As far as I know, it depends on the output signal of the synth and the input level of the interface whether you need a preamp. A dx7 for instance is -10db unbalanced, a jx8p or juno106 can be switched to L/M/H (which I believe is -10, 0 and +4, but I could be very wrong), a Nord Lead is line (+4db)...
As for consoles, you don't need a big console, there's small consoles with mic pre's as well, like the Mackie 1402 and such, although there's a big difference in the (noise-) quality of mic pre's...

Would be interesting to hear some opinions about this, it's not something you always considder (at least I don't).

Re: recording synths

@ Brian
You are right, Jx8p has a switch, but even on its H setting (H/M/L as +4,0,-10, I presume) is mostly quieter then a Nord lead. I always found it a bit quiet compared to other synths. Not that it's really a problem.

Re: recording synths

Didn't you get an ADA8000 recently?   You could use those pres to give a bump before hitting your interface, no?

7 (edited by Brian Chinetti 2009-02-11 23:04:03)

Re: recording synths

3apkob wrote:

@ Brian
You are right, Jx8p has a switch, but even on its H setting (H/M/L as +4,0,-10, I presume) is mostly quieter then a Nord lead. I always found it a bit quiet compared to other synths. Not that it's really a problem.

I only recently found out that sometimes in Europe line level is actually +6dB, whilst in the US it's +4dB. That was in a broadcasting situation, but I reckon it could also apply to any professional electronics. Clavia is European, maybe that's why it's louder? I'm just guessing, I really have no clue about this subject so don't take my word on anything wink

Re: recording synths

about the clavia issue, i don't know really if they're louder.. a friend of mine always complains that his Modular G2 has so little output volume, compared e.g his juno106

to OP: maybe consider geting a rackmount channelstrip if you overdub a lot.. won't help you tho if you want to record all synths at once

Re: recording synths

as long as the distance is short there won't be any trouble with noise (electro magnetic, radio freqs.) for sure if your inputs are 20 metres away you will need to balance the signal with a DI. bass guitars are sometimes DI'd straight to the desk to provide a more evenly represented sound so maybe the same applies to synths too.

if you're looking for a nice pre amp and DI in one, focusrite ISA ONE would be high on my list.

Re: recording synths

Any preamp will make the job,
you could try the electro harmonix 2ube,
it's cheap and can boost as high as you want,
it's tube and when driven hot distorts really nice, but watch out if you're looking for something totally transparent (if you could notice a cr1604 in the signal path yikes)

imho don-t waste money on some high end preamp if you're just using it with synths...

Re: recording synths

can't recommend presonus firebox highly enough.

Bloke in shop said tec bloke took all the ones they had in the shop, and some they didnt sell, compared the ad/da with high end ad//da- ad...something (can't remember, on tip of toungue)- and he totally rated the presonus.

They didn't sell the presonus, and told me to go to another shop and buy presonus.

That's customer service. and i really appreciate good customer service.

and a very good input output box. no major probs. Firewire, only prob, no on/off switch.

Re: recording synths

whoever told you DI and mic pre is the proper way to record synths directly is getting very confused with instrument level (like an electric guitar) and line level (like a synth)

A DI might help with providing a nice high impedance for some wonky old guitar pickup, but any line level synth should have plenty of juice for a line level recording input, if you turn the output volume up.

if you really want 8 channels of amplification, then get a smallish 8 channel mixer with direct outs on the input channels. that'll give you all the gain you need, and much more. and with any luck the channel direct outs will be post EQ, so you'll get EQ for your recording inputs too...

Re: recording synths

Rproductions wrote:

imho don-t waste money on some high end preamp if you're just using it with synths...

I have a friend who has a great river MP-2 NV
http://www.mercenary.com/greatrivelmp.html

He uses it to record all his synth stuff now, and I can hear he difference between tracks he's done with and without it. going over to visit and running synths through it and listening to the sound was a very interesting experience... it definitely does make a difference, and a very nice difference... just be aware that while it's nice, it's not a huge difference... but for people with the $$ to spend on such gear it's definitely not a waste.

Re: recording synths

clavia are damn quiet thats for sure. I always record it raw into the pc and then boost it with simple +gain plugins or maybe something more robust like an amp emulator. my rule of thumb is always record the sound as it comes out of the synth without anything in between.

Re: recording synths

Hmm, my Nord Rack 1 is very loud compared to most of my other synths.

As for what you put in between or not, that's a matter of preference and work flow. If you mix down and author in the computer, you might want to add some analog eq before you record into the computer. Or not. I dunno.

I never really bothered pre-amping anything. The synths that have a lower output (like the DX's and CZ's), I just give 'em some extra gain. The added noise is considered extra charm wink

Re: recording synths

embrace the stray crackle in the abyss of reverb

Re: recording synths

no-fi wrote:
Rproductions wrote:

imho don-t waste money on some high end preamp if you're just using it with synths...

I have a friend who has a great river MP-2 NV
http://www.mercenary.com/greatrivelmp.html

He uses it to record all his synth stuff now, and I can hear he difference between tracks he's done with and without it. going over to visit and running synths through it and listening to the sound was a very interesting experience... it definitely does make a difference, and a very nice difference... just be aware that while it's nice, it's not a huge difference... but for people with the $$ to spend on such gear it's definitely not a waste.

I've got no doubts it makes a difference,
I simply think that even if people have $$ to spend on something like that (eheh I like the sentence) it's still a waste cuz you're not running microphones thru it smile

Re: recording synths

if you do it like this, the do it right and run the synth or drum machine through a big guitar or bass amp, then mike it properly and record...

i used to play my ms10 through a guitar amp in a band many, many years ago, and it makes the thing even nastier than it already is..

Re: recording synths

supposedly the band air were called that because thet run all their sounds through the medium of air before recording.  it's certainly nice to make the effort and put a bit more of your own stamp on things

Re: recording synths

I've been reading quite a bit in the last few days about this, It seems there are no perfect solutions.

Synth output levels vary greatly from each other, but it's apparently pretty common that synths have a  too high impedance for a simple line input and can benefit from direct input + preamplification.
Some synths have a line level and don't need any help to be at the optimal signal level.

In any case using a DI and preamp can add colour and control over the sound, that can also raise the noise floor of the synths.

This is what I understood from my research, If someone can add to this or correct me, go ahead.
Especially with regards to signal impedance and such, I'm not 100% clear on this yet

I've decided to find a decent rackmount mixer with individual outputs to take care of the levels.

Re: recording synths

rude66 wrote:

if you do it like this, the do it right and run the synth or drum machine through a big guitar or bass amp, then mike it properly and record...

i used to play my ms10 through a guitar amp in a band many, many years ago, and it makes the thing even nastier than it already is..

Multiman S through an old Marshall head was my combination, strings on overdrive wink

Also a poly800 through an apex aural exciter - unbelievable improvement.


This is turning into a very educational thread, I must say.