51

Re: Do EUropeans care?

that's why I said that this is not the only important parameter to be taken into consideration. still it is one of the things that have an effect. i agree with you. if i only take croatia as an example, the fact that the debt is not as high as in germany for example doesn't really mean as much comparing the condition of economy in these two countries.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Brian Chinetti wrote:

Hmm Yas, I think it's way too simple to look at it that way. First of all, don't forget, Greece got into trouble because they faked their numbers in the first place. And dept alone is not the real worry, it's the likeliness of a countries economy to stay healthy enough in order to one day repay those debts. That likeliness depends on your financial health and the nature of those depts in terms of interest rate, length of the loan and the principal payments. Same like me getting a mortgage: being self employed I'm much more of a risk, so the terms and conditions will be accordingly, and depending on those terms I could be much worse off even tho I have a smaller loan than my neighbor who has a steady job. And I'd be even more worse off if I, unlike my neighbor, didn't get my loan from a bank but from a loan shark... So even tho Spain has a lower public dept percentage, other countries like Germany and the Netherlands can be considered to be much less of a risk.


Yeah.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Technicolor wrote:

I'm with you teknob

im with you guys. 
after all whats the point of the EU if the stronger countries dont help out when the shit hits the fan.

Uh

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Im for a United Viking States. the southern european countries have been dictatorships and corrupt for half a decade. The political Culture of these Countries is too fractured.

A paranoid is someone who knows a little of whats really going on.

55 (edited by ytz 2010-05-18 13:50:02)

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Northern Europe is just as corrupt; it's better at hiding/institutionalizing it

United Viking States is a cool name, tho smile

cuties don't exert

Re: Do EUropeans care?

ytz wrote:

Northern Europe is just as corrupt; it's better at hiding/institutionalizing it

United Viking States is a cool name, tho smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvLs5KXWYI

Techno Viking for Cheiftain.

A paranoid is someone who knows a little of whats really going on.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

travelling without a visa is nice for sure...dunno about the rest...too much  wink

Re: Do EUropeans care?

without a EU or single currency financial institutions (hedgefunds) would've played out the currencies to each other and would have seriously hurt even the strongest economies in Europe. Almost all EU countries would be in the situation Greece is in right now. People in EU who say the Euro sucks, prices have doubled blabla are mostly sjonnies who don't understand anything of economics and vote Wilders anyway.

nevertheless. the status quo is just not maintainable any more. ALL countries are in a shitpile of debt, persons in countries in a shitpile of debt (mortages/creditcards etc.), companies in debt. It seems everyone is in debt, who is lending the money you might ask (or does money actually still exist is the better question?)

Mark my words, it will all crash and burn, at the moment China or whatever decides they don't longer want to finance the debt. But don't worry, it will be a good thing.

59

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Brian Chinetti wrote:

Greece got into trouble because they faked their numbers in the first place

& those responsible are *not* going to prison! no wonder there's riots!

cuties don't exert

60

Re: Do EUropeans care?

actinet6 wrote:

Mark my words, it will all crash and burn, at the moment China or whatever decides they don't longer want to finance the debt. But don't worry, it will be a good thing.

capitalism is always about boom and bust, always goes in cycles. if "the system" crashed and burned - worldwide - it would mean war. somewhere. and somehow. and from what i gather war is a real pain in the arse.

cuties don't exert

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Nuclear winter would also solve global warming, two birds with one stone!

Monkey see, monkey do.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Brian Chinetti wrote:

Hmm Yas, I think it's way too simple to look at it that way. First of all, don't forget, Greece got into trouble because they faked their numbers in the first place. .

wich made them an easy target for American imperialists ..

Jarenlang heeft de regering van Griekenland gelogen over het werkelijke begrotingstekort. Met allerlei vervalste gegevens en statistieken kon de Griekse regering de Eurolanden overtuigen dat het land voldeed aan alle eisen om toe te treden tot de eurozone. Het begrotingstekort zou volgens die gegevens ergens rond een voorgeschreven drie procent liggen, terwijl nu blijkt dat het tekort rond de dertien procent ligt. Hiermee heeft Griekenland niet alleen zichzelf maar de hele eurozone in de financiële problemen gebracht.

Volgens de Amerikaanse krant New York Times hebben Amerikaanse banken als Goldman Sachs en JP Morgan de Griekse overheid druk geholpen met het omzeilen van de regels. Zo zou Goldman Sachs in 2001 geregeld hebben dat Griekenland leningen kreeg van miljarden dollars, die vervolgens niet als leningen werden gepresenteerd maar als valutatransacties waardoor ze niet werden meegeteld als Griekse schuld. Volgens de krant hebben vertegenwoordigers van Goldman Sachs nog recent een bezoek aan Griekenland gebracht waarbij zij het voorstel deden om de huidige terugbetaling van staatsschulden via ingewikkelde constructies door te schuiven naar de toekomst. Daarop zou de Griekse regering niet zijn ingegaan.
Voormalig topman van het ministerie van Financiën en later ING-bestuurder Cees Maas zei gisterenavond op de tv dat het met de wijsheid van nu een fout was om Griekenland ooit toe te laten tot de eurozone.

JP Morgan en Goldman Sachs weigeren commentaar te geven.

TB or not TB

Re: Do EUropeans care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=ETTtBXKVsL4

Monkey see, monkey do.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

smart guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8 … re=related

TB or not TB

Re: Do EUropeans care?

JP Morgan en Goldman Sachs weigeren commentaar te geven.

I actually like that, i actually start to respect Goldman Sachs. .they're like the antichrist or something, good imagebuilding smile

When the Euro was high compared to the Dollar everybody here was complaining that that would hurt exports. China keeps it's currency artificially low. And the US, well. they just print print print anyway (did anyone even consider the fact that if the when the US buys oil in dollar that they are basically getting it for free, what would happen if they suddenly didn't get it for free anymore).

Re: Do EUropeans care?

actinet6 wrote:

JP Morgan en Goldman Sachs weigeren commentaar te geven.

I actually like that, i actually start to respect Goldman Sachs. .they're like the antichrist or something, good imagebuilding smile

When the Euro was high compared to the Dollar everybody here was complaining that that would hurt exports. China keeps it's currency artificially low. And the US, well. they just print print print anyway (did anyone even consider the fact that if the when the US buys oil in dollar that they are basically getting it for free, what would happen if they suddenly didn't get it for free anymore).

If you look at the figures, Euro is still high compared to the Dollar.

How are US getting oil for free?

Monkey see, monkey do.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

actinet6 wrote:

And the US, well. they just print print print anyway (did anyone even consider the fact that if the when the US buys oil in dollar that they are basically getting it for free, what would happen if they suddenly didn't get it for free anymore).

thats why the US military has positioned itself in the world to be able to take that oil by force if necessary.

Re: Do EUropeans care?

Some care ...


Euro-Kritiker weiten ihre Klage auf EU-Rettungsschirm aus

http://www.pressekonferenz.tv/ondemand/ … 72010.html

Sorry, German Language only ...

Re: Do EUropeans care?

http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurof … sd.en.html

Euro is picking up momentum again.

Monkey see, monkey do.

70 (edited by bias 2010-07-15 19:01:15)

Re: Do EUropeans care?

ytz wrote:
actinet6 wrote:

Mark my words, it will all crash and burn, at the moment China or whatever decides they don't longer want to finance the debt. But don't worry, it will be a good thing.

capitalism is always about boom and bust, always goes in cycles. if "the system" crashed and burned - worldwide - it would mean war. somewhere. and somehow. and from what i gather war is a real pain in the arse.

there's no capitalism in eu, but socialism