Buying a new mixer... Soundcraft EFX 12? (Page 1 of 2)

you are definitely in the right place to find out a ton about mixers ZeHa! imo, if you decided on the soundcraft i would not go the route of the internal effects but just have the option to have 2 sends go out to effects. you might get tired of Lexicon and then be stuck with it being an only option for one send.

also it really depends on your own personal taste towards board noise, how much space you have etc, but i know a lot of folks on here recommend buying old boards cause they are going for about 300-500 euro/$ right now. we just got a 1989 18 channel board for $350 and so far it kicks the crap out of our soundcraft compact 10 we were using. it's just warmer, has more headroom and the eq on it is much more detail in color, i don't think you can get that buying new for $350 these days.

anyway, my two cents, i'm no expert but i wouldn't know what i know now about gear decisions if i hadn't spent hours reading threads on here!

I have an old Soundcraft, a Spirit Folio F1 that I used a lot in the studio about 10 years ago. It was also a budget mixer at the time. The sound is okay, low noise, rather transparent and with enough headroom. It's not the most awesome eq, nothing musical or detailed, but it does the job.
A few years later I also switched to an old midlevel desk (= as opposed toa entry level desk), right now I use a late 80s / early 90s D&R Dayner. It does sound a lot more musical, broader and more detailed. At some point I had my mixer serviced and needed to switch back to the Soundcraft dfor a while and it was clear that it couldn't compete at all.
If you'd say I want to use it for live, I'd say go for it. In my experience it is very reliable and does that job well. But as a studio mixer to replace your old seventies mixer... I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. I think if you wanna upgrade, you'd better look at a midlevel mixer, not a budget mixer.  And if you can't afford a new one, look for an oldie.  There's plenty of older, smaller mixers that give what you want. Try looking for a Sony MXP, for instance.

come on man.. you're in germany? here in holland d&r's can be found lying on every street corner. i just paid less for a 24 channel dayner with patchbay that you were willing to pay for your soundcraft. keep an eye on places like marktplaats.nl (just type in d&r in the search function) and you'll find one, then hop in a car and come get it..

see? 275 for a 24 channel version..

i'm holding you to this fact next time we're in holland rude. 

Heyho...

I'm still without a new mixer

Every now and then I checked some used stuff on eBay, but there's so much to choose from it's hard to know what to buy. On the other hand, my budget is higher now and even though you told me to buy an old mixer I'm still somehow tempting to buy a new one. Yes, I do believe you when you say that old mixers are better quality. On the other hand, new mixers have sometimes more features and are often more compact and light (I plan to use it as a studio mixer mainly but on the other hand, I also hope to be able to do more live stuff in the future). And of course, you know they're in mint condition

As I said, I'm aware of all your previous comments, but now that my budget is higher, I'd like to ask a few things about those higher priced mixers (because based on my first posting you all assumed that I'd like to buy a budget mixer, which was correct at that time of course).
As for Soundcraft, there's for example the M12, which seems to be a solid thing. The a-bit-cheaper series (MPMI/MFXI) are supposed to have good preamps, called GB30, but now I wonder if the M12 has them too (or even better ones), because there's nothing said about that. Also, there's a Spirit 16 mkII, which doesn't seem to belong to one of the othere series, and it's the successor of a seemingly popular desk.
Another thing I actually put my hands on in a store was the Allen&Heath Wizard WZ16:2, it was really solid and tough, and the guy who works at the shop even brought his own board for me to look at, because they didn't have it in stock. He said it's a really good desk without anything to criticize, and that's also what I read so far about it. It's the most expensive so far that I considered (1000 EUR), but if it's really that good, I might give it a chance. Even though I'd still be interested in the Soundcraft M12, which is about half the price.

Then again, lots of people praise the sound, but you simply don't know what kind of music they make and are used to. As we all know, if it sounds too perfect, the result might be boring in the end.

Well well... it's not easy. The biggest problem is that I can't judge the sound by just looking at them and twisting the knobs. I asked in one shop for the M12, and the guy said he can order it for me and I can take it home for trying it out, but then he emailed me and told me he can't do it now, he can only order the cheaper series...
So I really already consider ordering it via Thomann with 30 days money-back guarantee, because it's simply not possible to try them out.

Now my question of course, has anybody here tried one of the more expensive Soundcrafts or the Allen&Heath Wizard? I believe they're both good in terms of build quality, but what do you think about the sound? And are there still any suggestions about older boards? Haven't found the D&R boards on eBay, also they seem to be quite heavy and not so good for taking them to a live performance... (on the other hand, I already considered buying a good used board for maybe 400-500 and then getting an additional small, new, inexpensive desk for live stuff  )

The last mixer I had was a Soundcraft M8, which is basically the M12 minus a few channels.   The build quality is good, but not "wow!" great.  I had a Mackie 1604 for years and I didn't feel like the build of the M8 was much better to be honest.  100mm faders sure do feel nicer than the 60mm's on the Mackie, but I think the knobs on the 1604 actually felt better.

As for the sound, I didn't feel like the sound of the mixer was taking anything away from my gear, but it wasn't really adding anything either.  It just did its job and stayed out of the way.  Driving the channel hard wasn't all that great (I actually preferred the sound of overdriving the input on the Mackie). The EQ was acceptable - certainly better than on the 1604 - but not anything to go out of your way to get a hold of either.  Unfortunately the EQ can't be bypassed which is a minor annoyance to some.  Most of the time I just left it flat and did my eqing elsewhere.

If this review sounds pretty uninteresting, it's because the M8 was a pretty uninteresting mixer.  Did the job, but nothing more.  I'm mixerless now...I don't miss it.

Thanks again for your answers

Well I think you all got me convinced now... I'll try to find a good old desk with good sound quality and get me some cheaper one for live stuff

If you have any further suggestions about what old desk to get, please tell me does anybody know about old Zeck desks? I heard their PA speakers were really good...

And yet, if anyone of you has tried the A&H Wizard, please also tell me about the sound quality

Yeah, the Mackies seem to be a bit boring sounding from what I've heard. But you can see them quite often at live gigs though, so I guess they're pretty reliable for that task...

Mackies suck, I'm always a bit disappointed when clubs provide a Mackie. Short faders with tiny caps, shitty placement of buttons and no headroom... Not so cool for live. I really like the Soundcrafts, I've used my F1 for 10 years now. Recently I played somewhere and they had a M8 and again, a great live mixer. Workable EQ's, plenty of headroom and 100 mm faders. Perfect. But not for the studio, In the studio you want a more 'musical' mixer.

It really depends per club / organizer. Bigger clubs used to electronic acts usually have one, but small clubs, squats and bars can be more of a guess. I always ask for one in my rider, and ask the organizer to confirm 48 hours before the gig. You often have to be clear, cause especially lately they think you come with a laptop and can set up next to the dj and use his mixer, so a rider isn't a bad idea in general.
But the nice thing of that Spirit F1 I use is that it's very flat, light and fits perfectly in a average sized suitcase. So when I'm not flying I just bring it along. Not so much to be sure, but more cause I like it so much.

Even though I wouldn't buy Behringer, I think I read that the old Behringer mixers were actually pretty good (not really wow but not really crap either).

It's crazy that you even bring your own PA system to clubs. Of course, it's something different in a location where live music (or DJ music) is something unusual, but in a club you should really not expect to bring your own PA... very crazy