Topic: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

What are your experiences? I tried to do a search on RFR about it but didn't see anything.

I have the Linn drum (midi-fied by Forat.com) sending master clock to ableton which in turn does the bpm for arpeggiator and then external hardware. I'm only doing this because i want to arpeggiate a siel dk-80, but doing it this way doesn't keep the sync very well with the linn...and I can't really drop a few hundreds right now for a proper synth that has an arpeggiator. Also my other drum machines are out of sync as well when receiving from Live.

So my question is what do i need to adjust in terms of delay compensation? The input or the output? I've tried both and don't really hear a difference in anything.

The Live forums seem to argue all day about this.

Oh well probably a lost cause.

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

Why do you need the Linn as master?

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

Have you tried using something other then Live? If it works fine with Cubase or something similar, then you will at least know that the problem lies in the software.

But if you connect the Linn as a master, via midi on your sound card, where do you connect the keyboard then, usb? Or do you have multiple midi inputs or interfaces? I'm asking this because you will get different latency times from different midi interfaces, especially if one of them is firewire and the other usb.

Also, if you connect all your devices in a  series, there's a good chance that the ones at the end of the chain will be a bit late, so you have to compensate for  this in the sequencer, channel by channel.

And then, depending on the rythym machines you have, they may not all be 24 ppqn, maybe they use some other resolution..

I'm just guessing here, to give you ideas where to look, I'm no expert on this.. hope it helps.

or just use a standalone software arpeggiator like sweetmidi.

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

Ableton live has very bad midi clock sync.. It is really a hassle sad

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

I had a lot of trouble when using my Novation Studio x25 as a midi out, nothing would sync properly.. When I changed to a Tc electronic Konnect 24. no problem at all..
What version of live are you using?

+++ Dont be scared honey, thats just the resonance knob +++

6 (edited by TONY COPS 2009-01-30 16:21:39)

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

Yeah not all MIDI interfaces are the same, I have a Novation 37 sl and midi on there is a joke.  I use the Layla 24's i/o, much much better.

I use Live 7 with a few midi devices and I have very few problems, MIDI jitter is less than 2ms which is fine with me and I can set MIDI delays properly.  I use Ableton as a master clock.

I'm picking up a MIDI'd Linn today so mabe I can do a test with it as master.

Just a note on Live's Arp, I might be mistaking but I remember noticing it wasn't being compensated by the midi delay setting and I had to record the actual MIDI notes back onto the track to have proper timing.  It's something I always do now, mostly to see what is really going on.

Another thing is I use a MIDI Solutions Quadrathru which splits the MIDI out of the Layla 24 into 4 so I don't have to chain anything.

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

hmm I actually do have a lot of midi interfaces, more like a patchwork, but maybe i should invest in a single interface. as far as specs I'm using an echo mia midi and since it's so easy to program the linn using that to send master clock to ableton to sync other devices and the arp. i should try sonar or something it might just be ableton 6.

thanks for all your help!

oh and one more thing, the only device that is experiencing latency is the linn drum everything else syncs fine when i turn the linn's volume down.

8 (edited by TONY COPS 2009-01-30 21:40:37)

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

midi in Ableton 6 wasn't as stable as in 7, could be that.

9 (edited by ratsnake 2009-01-31 12:14:59)

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

hmm my experience is fantastic. mpc running ableton 4->5,6 and 7 ive synced from a dr660 (fantastic clock on that thingy).

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

so how is it possible that the device that sends the master clock (the linn) also has a delay?

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

I think you can offset the JL cooper midi addon a few midi clock offset, I haven't picked up mine yet and I don't know about the Forat one.

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

hmm i think the linn then might not be stable as the master clock. when i check the bpm on the linn itself, the time keeps but the numbers are going nuts. maybe just using some sort of simple clock to sync might be better and slave the linn along with the others...

13 (edited by TONY COPS 2009-01-31 21:27:56)

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

My Cr-8000  also does crazy numbers when slaved from Ableton, but it's still in sync with almost no jitter.

You should get Ableton 7 or  8 when it comes out and use that as a master clock.

you could set a tempo knob on a MIDI controller if you want to keep the immediacy of the Linn tempo knob.

Re: Beating a dead horse but....Ableton as slave?

Ableton Live (7) midi clock is stable,
as long as you use decent midi interface
I was running a set with 2 computers running ableton,one master one slave.
it worked fine as long as a dedicated midi port was used to run the clock.By dedicated I mean a proper midi interface so no keyboard controllers with midi ports they simply don't work tight enough!
I do agree the arpeggiator of live is not compensated on its own,it's enough to adjust the track delay comp tho